This topic was raised by a very dear friend of mine: She was explaining how much God had given up for us… and that we should be in awe and fall on our knees simply at the thought of his splendor. i responded:
… What God has given up for us? what, did humanity ask to be created? did humanity have a choice in anything? could humanity not have sinned (no, because it – did – not – happen), actually does humanity have ANY say? He gave up what for us!? this was his plan all along – was it not? here is God’s creation epiphany, “hm. i am going to make a big world in a huge universe; with humans, then… they will Sin, (because i will give them free will) and become plagued by evil, such as disease, death, suffering, rapes, genocides, and heart ache … yes… that sounds like a flawless plan!… okay, but then i am going to save them… oh that’s brilliant – send my son to die for all THEIR Evil… then i will have a relationship with them through my Son. and they will owe me everything… Perfect!”
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When we are dealing with a God who is all-powerful and all-knowing – this thought is completely inevitable. Did Adam really have a choice? could he have not sinned? So yah, God gives him a choice – but of course knowing that he would fail – because HE MADE HIM, designed him, knew what he would do and how he would think… no? Did He not know?! Because if he didn’t know, then there isn’t a problem anymore, but then he wouldn’t be God. (So maybe, as one of the church fathers suggests, sin was always part of God’s good and perfect plan – would that not change peoples theologies?… would it not??)
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Blind Faith – “just believe… you have to trust and stop relying upon yourself… even if it doesn’t make sense… just give it all up to Him… i know it’s difficult but….” I’m sure we’ve heard these phrases many times in our lives…. – HOW Can God – (Love, Grace, and presumably our creator) – have a required belief similar to jumping off a cliff with a pillow case. Is this some sick game for him? ‘hey! I am going fuck with them – i’m going to make this as difficult as possible, and unsensical as can be… yah this will be fun! and just for kicks, i am going to remain hidden; even if they CRY OUT to me with all that they are.’ why would the creator make belief in him ridiculous?! Is he not reasonable? creation sure is, we sure are – And we’re created in His image. Sure he is Just – but he made us. It’s his fault. everything is His fault, everything is because of him – He designed the way we understand, think, believe, trust… the way we taste, feel, touch, see, and smell.
We talk about not being robots, having a choice because love is exactly that; choosing. An engineer designs a car and puts it together… no one would ever blame the car if something went wrong. The car has nothing to do with it, it’s just doing what it’s designer designed it to be able to do. There is only One creator. ‘evil/sin’ exists. need i say more? God is evil. God is good (God is evil because he is good… the only thing that makes Good Good, is Evil). He is everything and nothing. The spectrum of life, from one end to the other has one thing in common: God. You think man came up with the idea themselves to kill? to lie? to cheat? to commit adultery? to love? to cherish? to care? “No no… God only gave the good ideas. Because he is Perfect.” well maybe we need to think this over again. if perfection were quantifiable than it would be Infinite. Now, infinity has no bounds, so…… don’t put boundaries on perfection as though it couldn’t involve “evil.” yes yes… semantics. etc. etc.
There is God in everything… for a complete removal would mean in-existence. The less God, the less good… but nevertheless God.
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I was going to delete all of that – but what if this creator knows that there is nothing that captures humanity more than mystery, more than not actually knowing, but just hoping… is there not more honor in doing something out of hope than out of certainty… is there not more honor in believing and doing without the reality of the most powerful being watching your every step. By God not being blatant – our true selves are expressed… our true selves are free. By free i mean able to be themselves – if there was a mighty dictator who required everyone to pick up hitch hikers – so that everyone picked them up out of fear, or Because of this ruler; how can their act of goodness be legitimate, true, and free?
7 responses so far ↓
Stephanie Schoenberg // July 3, 2008 at 10:42 am |
The
Christ said to us,
“I have cut you from a garden I tend
and set you in a vase
for the world
to see.
Soon you will return, for your glorious presence I miss.
My hands need to touch you again, my
divine senses and eyes require
your soul’s beauty
near.
Forgive me, my love, for the suffering
our separation
brought.
If I said I am in debt to you,
could you
understand?”
-A Poem by St. Thomas Aquinas
Laura Schoenberg // July 11, 2008 at 8:45 pm |
hmm…
Pierre, I enjoy your thoughts.
Steph, beautiful poem. The combination of Pierre’s entry with St. Thomas Aquinas’ poem was like watching something unravel.
I’ve often wondered though, how much an all-knowing God knows. I’m sure an all-knowing God who does not love would be frightful. But, what about an all-knowing God who does love? Perhaps his “all-knowing” is limited because of his love. And maybe he is just as surprised as we are when tragedy strikes…or even joy. Does Gods love, limit God’s knowledge or all-knowing, just as Jesus’ humanity limited him physically as he was hung up dying?
After all, he went looking for Adam and Eve in the garden. Was this God just as surprised as they were, to find the fruit in their hands?
Zultan // July 15, 2008 at 9:47 am |
Thankyou for your comment Laura
I enjoyed your thoughts.
Barth Speaks of God’s divine freedom – anything that takes away from His being is false theology. Anything that limits, binds, controls, or depends is not of His essence. Hence always using superlative jargon when speaking of Him. Words typically limit God, human language is not of his realm – that’s why only concepts implying infiniteness can be used; for infinity is outside of human comprehension.
Did he really go looking for Adam and Eve? With his eyes?
sincerely.
Valerie // July 28, 2008 at 8:07 pm |
Hey Pierre,
I enjoyed how you expressed your thoughts when you were in Jerusalem beside that rock….people who are powerfully believing with all their hearts, and talking out loud to God…and wanting to feel something spiritually real. It is touching to see because I think we can relate to it!
Michael. // February 2, 2009 at 10:09 am |
Ahh! Pierre, remember when we used to argue about the existence of evil and I would always say that it could be solved if evil is considered a non-entity. Well, I have been changing my mind lately after reading some poems by a couple rather famous Saints – Aquinas (as Steph mentioned) and St. John of the Cross. I must add their voices to this thought:
Aquinas: [God] “There is a hideous blemish on my body, though it is such an infinitesimal part of my Being – could you kiss that if it were revealed?”
“I will try, Lord, I will try.”
And then God said, “that blemish is all the hatred and cruelty in this world.”
St. John of the Cross: With all humility I say,
it is God who should ask for forgiveness, not we, Him.
Someday you will know this. A saint could explain.
Yes, the existence of evil is such an abominable mystery that many theologians refuse to paint themselves in a corner with it. So I agree. It confounds me, and in my ignorance I am tempted to curse God. But though I cannot explain evil’s existence, I cannot claim to understand enough to condemn God for allowing it – or furthermore, creating it. If He exists behind the curtain, who am I to know better than He. Who is the pot to blaspheme the potter? Isn’t it interesting that Aquinas had an ecstatic experience near the end of his life that left him confessing his most profound and penetrating theologies to be mere straw. Maybe His ways are higher than ours as heaven is over the earth.
Therefore, as I often find myself, I am at a theological stalemate. I am also at a crossroads whether to continue in faith or not. Yet I always discover in the end, that whatever I know or do not know, nothing can succeed that highest obligation to Love – in any state or circumstance. There is nothing more beautiful than to know that and live that, even when all logic seems to tower and teeter over you. How blessed is the one who chooses Love for Love’s sake alone.
“Without faith it is impossible to please God.” You are right Pierre, that to have certainty in this matter would be to destroy one of the Temple’s cornerstones.
Anonymous // May 28, 2009 at 7:52 pm |
like a babbling brook, you’re mouth slayes on
Zultan // May 30, 2009 at 10:34 pm |
‘your’
a babbling brook tends to be calming/peaceful… it doesn’t tend to ’slay’ onwards.
i could probably babble on about this, but… i must slay elsewhere.
: )